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Topic Summary

Posted by: Dale Eastman
« on: September 15, 2020, 10:10:46 AM »

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Me ➽ Would you care to discuss the points presented? ⛔

You ➽ Be happy to. Let's make sure that we both go into a conversation such as this knowing that if you assume the word "free" was never meant to be taken literally and to assume otherwise would make it a pointless discussion  ⛔

Me ➽ David Hybertson In accordance with my procedure of challenging claims for validity:
Are you claiming you knew exactly what Francis Scott Key meant when he wrote The Star Spangled Banner?
Specifically when he wrote, and I quote:

"And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;
O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?"

Are you claiming that Francis Scott Key did not intend "free" to mean the Liberty fought for and won in the first civil war? A.K.A. The Revolutionary War? Yes it was the first civil war! Brits were fighting Brits.

Then there's Jefferson's words, IMO, right on point regarding Liberty:
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."

So... Have you figured out that militia does NOT mean the national guard, nor the United States Army? The purpose of my challenge to your strongly implied claim that I don't know what "militia" means. ⛔

Typical. Somebody makes claims ⚠; I ask questions about the claims made �; I get crickets chirping.

Quote
... When someone shows that they clearly have the understanding of a 5 yr old when interpreting "land of the free and home of the brave" it simply says to us that we do not have the time or the crayons that it would take to show you what a dumbass you are ....

Quote

Me ➽ Would you care to discuss the points presented?  ⛔
You ➽ Be happy to. [...]  ⛔

The points I presented, that you agreed to discuss:

➽ United States Constitution, Amendment 2 states:
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. [...] so I'll just sum up what the amendment means.

1. The right of the people to keep and bear arms is an individual right, just like the right of the people to engage in free speech, and right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects.
2. The right to keep arms means the right to own and possess arms.
3. The right to bear arms means exactly that: The right to BEAR arms. The right to carry arms on or about one's person.
4. The militia referred to is citizens with their own arms, not members of the national guard of any state bearing the state's arms.
5. There are several reasons that the right to keep and bear is individual and essential.
5a. To kill tyrants.
5b. To kill invading armed forces.
5c. To defend one's life.
5d. To defend one's liberty.
5e. To defend one's property.
5f. To acquire food to stay alive.  ⛔

Did you really think I wouldn't notice your attempt to change the focus of what you agreed to discuss?

➽ I posted an image with these words:
Land of the Free, Home of the brave. Then why won't the free and brave people answer my questions that prove they are not free?  ⛔

You chose to ignore the points presented regarding what the term Militia means; Points presented in response to you claiming that I don't know what the term Militia means. Points for the purpose of discussing what the term Militia actually means in the second amendment.

My error for giving you the escape opportunity... But, I keep copies and I review dialogs.

Regardless, You chose to make the discussion about what "Free" means. Specifically, when you made a claim:
➽ the word "free" was never meant to be taken literally  ⛔

So I quoted Francis Scott Key where the phrase "Free and Brave" came from:
"And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air, Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there; O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave"

And then I challenged your claim by challenging you regarding your mind reading abilities of long dead Francis Scott Key to know what he meant when he wrote The Star Spangled Banner?

Would you care to discuss what "Free" means as used in the song: "the land of the free and the home of the brave"?

Would you care to discuss the points presented showing what the term Militia means?
Posted by: Dale Eastman
« on: August 27, 2020, 10:32:24 AM »

A meme stating:
Quote
Civilians should be able to own fully functioning tanks, aircraft, and battleships.

Quote
Retard post

Quote
"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state government, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people" (Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788)
"Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American" be it a full rock and roll capable M16 assault rifle, a 105mm Howitzer, or a Saturday night special. The purpose is to be capable of killing tyrants and those who would enslave.
Edited for this post to include fully functional tanks, aircraft, & battleships.
And to note that private cannon were used in the first civil war against King George.

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What militia? You may want to look up some of the terms you copy and paste so that you know what they actually mean so you dont look like just another dumbass

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Oh I know what the term militia means.
IMO, you sir, do not.
The following copy and paste words are MY words.
There is a saying, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse." If this legally sanctioned myth is correct, then as far as I am concerned, this goes triple for office holders given authority and responsibility to uphold and enforce the laws. How can you uphold the Constitution if you don't understand what you are upholding?
The Constitution is to be read and understood in the light of the Declaration of Independence.
The Declaration of Independence states:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with inherent and unalienable rights; that among these, are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.
Inherent in the right to Life, is the right to defend and protect it. Inherent in the right to Liberty, is the right to choose what tools, tactics, and techniques will be used to defend and protect one's Life.
United States Constitution, Amendment 2 states:
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
This very short sentence is packed with information, history, and context. I'll leave it to the reader to do the homework of reading the 107 page memorandum opinion for the attorney general found on the USDOJ web site and cited below. I have read it, and various other Liberty focused text, so I'll just sum up what the amendment means.
1. The right of the people to keep and bear arms is an individual right, just like the right of the people to engage in free speech, and right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects.
2. The right to keep arms means the right to own and possess arms.
3. The right to bear arms means exactly that: The right to BEAR arms. The right to carry arms on or about one's person.
4. The militia referred to is citizens with their own arms, not members of the national guard of any state bearing the state's arms.
5. There are several reasons that the right to keep and bear is individual and essential.
5a. To kill tyrants.
5b. To kill invading armed forces.
5c. To defend one's life.
5d. To defend one's liberty.
5e. To defend one's property.
5f. To acquire food to stay alive.
I'll be using my own definition of tyrant to quickly portray the concept: A tyrant is a criminal who holds a State office and/or uses the office to make and use the law to make his criminal acts "lawful". Tyrants use law to take lives, liberties, and property.
This pdf file is a long read. It is 107 pages.
http://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/olc/opinions/2004/08/31/op-olc-v028-p0126.pdf

Three days later...

Quote
Still reading the 107 page report?
Cricket image "Chirp chirp."

Quote
Apparently. At times I forget that even though I am speaking in English most of the retards are listening in dumbass

Quote
I acknowledge your posting of your opinion.
Would you care to discuss the points presented?

Img: Land of the Free, Home of the brave
Then why won't the free and brave people answer my questions that prove they are not free?

Quote
Be happy to. Let's make sure that we both go into a conversation such as this knowing that if you assume the word "free" was never meant to be taken literally and to assume otherwise would make it a pointless discussion

Quote
In accordance with my procedure of challenging claims for validity:
Are you claiming you knew exactly what Francis Scott Key meant when he wrote The Star Spangled Banner?

Specifically when he wrote, and I quote:

"And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;
O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?"

Are you claiming that Francis Scott Key did not intend "free" to mean the Liberty fought for and won in the first civil war? A.K.A. The Revolutionary War? Yes it was the first civil war! Brits were fighting Brits.

Then there's Jefferson's words, IMO, right on point regarding Liberty:
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."

So... Have you figured out that militia does NOT mean the national guard, nor the United States Army? The purpose of my challenge to your strongly implied claim that I don't know what "militia" means.
Quote
Me ➽ Would you care to discuss the points presented? ⛔
You ➽ Be happy to. Let's make sure that we both go into a conversation such as this knowing that if you assume the word "free" was never meant to be taken literally and to assume otherwise would make it a pointless discussion ⛔
Me ➽ David Hybertson In accordance with my procedure of challenging claims for validity:
Are you claiming you knew exactly what Francis Scott Key meant when he wrote The Star Spangled Banner?
Specifically when he wrote, and I quote:
"And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;
O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?"
Are you claiming that Francis Scott Key did not intend "free" to mean the Liberty fought for and won in the first civil war? A.K.A. The Revolutionary War? Yes it was the first civil war! Brits were fighting Brits.
Then there's Jefferson's words, IMO, right on point regarding Liberty:
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."
So... Have you figured out that militia does NOT mean the national guard, nor the United States Army? The purpose of my challenge to your strongly implied claim that I don't know what "militia" means. ⛔
Typical. Somebody makes claims ⚠; I ask questions about the claims made �; I get crickets chirping.