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Topic Summary

Posted by: Dale Eastman
« on: October 09, 2020, 09:54:41 AM »

Some of these following quotes were chronologically interlaced with the Meme Stream post.

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you're being extorted regardless, so voting for someone who will extort you and others less is bad? nice mental gymnastics.
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your memes are dumb.
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you're basically the equivalent of the not real communism crowd right now.
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you


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Literally can't make an argument without sounding like a complete fool so you've resorted to spamming dumb memes. You're in ancom territory now because that's what they do when they've lost a debate
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You're really sticking it to the state by not voting for people who want to lessen it... hope that purity test is worth it
Quote from: Anar Chist
voters want to lessen it. Anarchists want to end it. It could help to gain "anarchy" faster if the majority would vote the libertarian party. But the majority in this system will never be Libertarians/Anarchists...
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Anar Chist it's not about winning, it's about getting someone on the debate stage to push libertarian ideas. Considering how many ancaps or whatever people want to label themselves are that because of Ron Paul, you would think this message wouldn't fall on so many deaf ears and people would understand this concept. But apparently the purity test which does absolutely nothing in the end is more important.
Quote from: Anar Chist
to push libertarian ideas more is to start by ourselves. We dont have to wait for a party to spread it. By disobeying the state will loose. By voting they get somehow accepted.
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Anar Chist
we as individuals without the platforms the debates reach can only influence so many people. Trust me I've turned plenty of people towards Libertarianism or more, but someone on the national debate stage would reach people we never will. People campaigning and running commercials will reach people you and I never will.
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to arrive the national debate stage doesn't mean that there will be less taxation and power of state. Only if the majority would vote.. but if the most are understanding voluntaryism there will be no state !
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It is quite apparent to me, as I organize my archive of this discussion, that you and I have a communication problem.

I will do a dangerous act... I will make some assumptions about you. If I err, please correct me immediately.

From the points you are attempting to make, My opinion of you is that you do see "something" is wrong. If so, then we agree on that point.

Where we seem to seriously disagree is how to fix what's wrong, how to fix what's broken. I'm not actually sure we agree as to the specifics of what's wrong. The context of this discussion, the Libertarian Party(?) as a third option, restricts the view to ONLY the United States. I do not recognize that limit for looking at a world wide problem. As such, I don't care WHAT the political party is called. They are ALL statists attempting to grasp the levers of control of the State for their own (nefarious) schemes.

For the moment, I am ignoring your stupid comments, because I find some value in your not stupid comments.

➽ Anar Chist it's not about winning, it's about getting someone on the debate stage to push libertarian ideas.

What, specifically, are "libertarian ideas"? Do "libertarian ideas" include extorting people for money and control?

Libertarian ideas, according to what you have posted so far: is "less" extortion of people for money or control; is "less" criminal action by the criminal syndicate called government.

The issue IS the message presented; The issue is the pure/impure libertarian ideas being pushed; The issue is presenting the message that government is a criminal syndicate with BOGUS, usurped authority taken by acts of fraud.

➽ But apparently the purity test which does absolutely nothing in the end is more important.

In your opinion.

Mine is that pushing impure libertarian ideas hurts more than helps. Just rip the bandage off already.

➽ we as individuals without the platforms the debates reach can only influence so many people. [...] someone on the national debate stage would reach people we never will. People campaigning and running commercials will reach people you and I never will.

Written like somebody with no clue about Larken's radio spots. Written like somebody with no clue about word of mouth information.

Have you read Larken's TMDS?

United States: Republican Party; Democratic Party; Libertarian Party; Vermont Progressive Party; Independence Party of New York; Reform Party.
Canada: Liberal Party; Conservative Party; Bloc Québécois Party; New Democratic Party; Green Party; Independent Party; Independent Senators Group Party; Canadian Senators Group Party; Progressive Senate Group Party.
United Kingdom: Conservative and Unionist Party; Labour Party; Co-operative Party; Scottish National Party; Liberal Democrats; Democratic Unionist Party; Social Democratic and Labour Party; Green Party of England and Wales; Alliance Party of Northern Ireland.
Australia: Liberal Party of Australia; National Party of Australia; Liberal National Party of Queensland; Australian Labor Party; Australian Greens; Centre Alliance.
Posted by: Dale Eastman
« on: October 09, 2020, 09:52:44 AM »

End of Meme Stream.
Posted by: Dale Eastman
« on: October 09, 2020, 09:49:55 AM »

Meme Stream.
Posted by: Dale Eastman
« on: October 09, 2020, 09:48:04 AM »

Meme Stream.
Posted by: Dale Eastman
« on: October 09, 2020, 09:41:07 AM »

Meme Stream
Posted by: Dale Eastman
« on: October 09, 2020, 09:37:16 AM »

Meme Stream.
Posted by: Dale Eastman
« on: October 08, 2020, 09:33:27 AM »

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Did you all know when Larken escaped the womb he literally became an anarchist from that second forward? From that day forward he never once voted, supported a government policy or even believed in the state existing. In fact, before Larken, anarchy didn't even exist. He didn't need a single idea to set him on the path to anarchy because he was anarchy from day one. If a cop walks within 10 yards of him, they denounce the laws they uphold and only care about the NAP! Taxation even ceases to exist, the IRS vanishes the instant he confronts them and tells him he doesn't vote. With the wave of his finger the entire military can vanish! When he doesn't vote politicians can't pass new laws or taxes either. He's the man of principle, literally changing the world every time he doesn't vote.

Meanwhile us plebians, who once believed in state and needed exposed to ideas that got us started on our path to anarchy, are unprincipled for thinking it's a good idea to vote for someone who pushes ideas similar to the ones that did exactly that are bad. Us realizing the state exists regardless and it's better to vote for a party that doesn't want to tax us and limit our freedoms are also unprincipled. Not voting and not showing the world other options exist is the way to defeat statism. If only we could be as pure and upholding as the almighty Larken who literally can turn a statist into an anarchist by whispering taxation is theft and nothing more. Man I really wish I was that guy...

On a serious note Larken, you've always been a great debater and form great arguments, but your stances on voting are easily your weakest arguments and debates in your arsenal. Your ego getting in the way of seeing that is also a pretty big weakness. Get over yourself, you're accomplishing nothing except looking like a someone who is on a high horse patting themselves on the back
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If you vote for a politician to become a Legislator,
You vote for a person who drafts and enacts rules.
You vote for somebody who makes rules people must obey under penalty of death.

If you vote for a politician to become a Mayor, Governor, or President,
You vote for a person to enforce the rules made by Legislators.
You vote for somebody to make people obey or kill people if they resist.

Thus, If you vote, you give your consent to a gang of criminal extortionists and validate a corrupt system.
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Guess what, if you don't vote that still happens. Would you rather have someone gain that position who wants less taxes, more liberty and less government or one of the 2 major parties that do the opposite?
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Lemme make sure I understand your question. You're asking me if I want to be ruled by somebody who extorts less from me than somebody who extorts more from me.
synapticsparks.info/v
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you're ruled by someone regardless. You live under the state. Would you rather your ruler be a person who wants less taxation, more liberty and less government or one of the 2 major parties who do the opposite?
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Do I correctly understand you. Are you asking me if I want to be ruled by somebody who extorts less from me or somebody who extorts more from me?
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Since you're being extorted regardless yes I am asking you that. Also, how did you become an ancap?
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Thank you. Now you and I are starting to communicate.

Now, why are you ignoring the "extortion" part?
Isn't extorting people a criminal act?
Don't you believe you have a right to protect yourself from extortion?
Looks to me like your belief in protecting your self from extortion is to choose less extortion.
News flash, more or less extortion is still a criminal act.

Turnabout being fair play:
I'm not an "ancap." I don't remember what that label was/is supposed to denote. I don't care either. I'll supply my own label, thank you. I'm a voluntaryist and a YDOMist.

How did I get to "anarchist"? Critical thinking, logic, and observation of the system you "SEEM" to be supporting. As I have refined my thinking for over a decade, I have boiled it down to a simple question that when followed up, makes people's heads explode.

Government By What Authority?
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extortion is a crime but that doesn't change the fact you're being extorted by the state regardless. Would you rather be extorted for less or more? You know you can vote and be an anarchist/voluntaryist right? If you want to get into splitting hairs and purity you're not a voluntaryist and I'm not an anarchist, we both live under a state and don't fully practice either of those concepts. You drive on roads, which require extortion to maintain. You pay for permits. You pay fines for breaking laws. You pay taxes. How can you be a voluntaryist while doing all those things and using government infrastructure that requires extortion to build and maintain?
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➽ extortion is a crime but that doesn't change the fact you're being extorted by the state regardless.

And pointing out that people are being extorted by the state doesn't make it not a crime.

➽ Would you rather be extorted for less or more?

Would you rather be a slave to a harsh master or a less harsh master?

➽ You know you can vote and be an anarchist/voluntaryist right?

Why I Won't Vote

If you vote for a politician to become a Legislator,
You vote for a person who drafts and enacts rules.
You vote for somebody who makes rules people must obey under penalty of death.

If you vote for a politician to become a Mayor, Governor, or President,
You vote for a person to enforce the rules made by Legislators.
You vote for somebody to make people obey or kill people if they resist.

I don't have any right to choose a tyrant to have authority over you.
I don't have any authority over you that I could delegate to a tyrant by voting anyway.

Voting for the lessor of two evils is still voting for evil.

I refuse to condone the evil that the criminal syndicate called government has done in the name of The People.

Voting For Cake

If a group of people are asked to vote for either a chocolate cake or a vanilla cake, the majority group's decision controls what the minority group gets. If you absolutely hate the taste of chocolate cake and that's what the majority wants, then you eat chocolate cake or nothing.

Unlike the results of other votes, 'government' people with guns don't come and force you to eat the chocolate cake.

Voting is Majority Tyranny

Voting is where a collective of individual humans perform an act that allows the majority of those individuals to control the minority of those individuals. Voters have somehow become convinced that it is their duty to be controlled by what the majority has chosen for them.

This is proven by observing minority voters honoring and obeying the result of the majority vote; whether it is to eat chocolate cake; pay extra taxes; or be represented by an elected alleged Representative who provably does not represent the minority.

Since none of the majority has any non bogus authority over the minority, what the majority wishes and votes for creates no legitimate demand on any of the minority.

Which means that voting will always be the majority controlling the minority until people awake to the fact that none of the majority was born with non bogus authority over them or anybody else.

➽ If you want to get into splitting hairs and purity you're not a voluntaryist [...]

Evidence?

➽ If you want to get into splitting hairs and purity [...] I'm not an anarchist.

That is quite clear by your statist posts.
 
➽ [...] we both live under a state [...]

What does it mean to "live under a state"?
I know what it means to live under a state's extortion.

➽ You drive on roads, which require extortion to maintain. You pay for permits. You pay fines for breaking laws. You pay taxes. How can you be a voluntaryist while doing all those things and using government infrastructure that requires extortion to build and maintain?

How is that supposed to make me want to vote?
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those things still happen when you don't vote so you're accomplishing nothing
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Isn't your agenda that you want people to vote?

How is what you've been posting supposed to make me want to vote?


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I don't have an agenda. Me pointing out if you don't vote you still get extorted and politicians still rule over you is reality. Don't vote, that's your right. But your argument that voting for someone who wants to lessen the government extorting you, lessen government a around and give us more liberty is somehow not a step in the right direction is a stupid purity test that accomplishes nothing. Call me statist all day like a childish lefty calls someone a nazi, but if you want less extortion while you're forced to live under the state not voting isn't doing it.
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➽ Me pointing out if you don't vote you still get extorted and politicians still rule over you is reality.

I never said it wasn't reality.

➽ But your argument that voting for someone who wants to lessen the government extorting you, lessen government a around and give us more liberty is somehow not a step in the right direction is a stupid purity test that accomplishes nothing.

Your argument is that voting for someone to extort you is a step in the right direction.

So I'm going to dig into my meme collection and post them over several replies.