Posted by: Dale Eastman
« on: May 22, 2021, 02:04:43 PM »
Literally, you should Google “classical liberalism representative government”, and start with the very basics.
➽ Literally, you should Google “classical liberalism representative government”, and start with the very basics.
What a good idea... "Starting with the basics."
Which existed first, Individual humans or the mental construct called government?
Dale: “which existed first....?”
Since human beings evolved as social animals, that question is nonsensical.
There was never a time in our evolution where we functioned alone, outside of a society.
Humans became an apex species by hunting in packs, running animals down until they simply wore out, and were easy to kill ( this is called “endurance predation”)
The packs were of families and clans, which *were* self-governance.
So the question of “which was first” is answered “neither”.
Scientifically, both evolved at the same time.
The libertarian fallacy is that there ever was a time in human development without government.
That has, simply, never existed.
It is not just our individual intellectual and athletic abilities which make us what we our, but our social behaviors.
There are different levels of social behavior, from asocial organisms which aren’t even really aware of each other as belonging to the same species, and eusocial organisms, like ants, which subject themselves to the community.
We are not eusocial, but we are, as a species, highly social.
It is the basis of everything humankind has achieved. We recognize the individual, but also recognize that we are a community.
The classical liberals understood this, and libertarians, who fundamentally don’t understand human nature, do not.
Liberty was understood to be a different kind of freedom from “license”, which was considered decadent, but is what the narcissistic, misanthropic libertarians promote.
License means “f you, come and take it, and I’ll kill you.”
That isn’t liberty. All animals have that freedom, the freedom to fight back. That’s not a “right”, it’s just an ability.
What makes us different is engendered in the concept of liberty - that we agree, socially, to protect the rights of others in exchange for them protecting ours.
That’s what the framers MEANT when they said men Institute governments to secure their liberty.
Libertarians missed that whole semester.
My question was very specific.
⇉Which existed first, Individual humans or the mental construct called government?⇇
➽ Since human beings evolved as social animals, that question is nonsensical.
Just because you posted your opinion, does not make your opinion into a fact.
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur. Equates to:
What is asserted without reason may be denied without reason: If no grounds have been given for an assertion, then there are no grounds needed to reject it.
Your opinion that my question is "nonsensical" is itself, "nonsensical."
You are wrong.
➽ There was never a time in our evolution where we functioned alone, outside of a society.
I didn't ask you if humans or society existed first.
➽ Humans became an apex species by hunting in packs, running animals down until they simply wore out, and were easy to kill ( this is called “endurance predation”)
That's nice to know. It doesn't answer the question of which came first, Humans or Government.
Thus your response is a non sequitur; "A statement that does not follow logically from what preceded it."
More specifically defined, your response had absolutely nothing to do with what it followed.
Because I am quite used to this type of behavior, I have coined the term "D⁵"
D⁵ - Distract, deflect, divert, disrupt, and/or derail.
➽ The packs were of families and clans, which *were* self-governance.
Assuming arguendo that a "family clan" had ten members, who specifically, made the governing rules?
Can you prove that the rules were not the "Do what you are told to do" type?
➽ So the question of “which was first” is answered “neither”.
D⁵
➽ Scientifically, both evolved at the same time.
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Your 16:07 post is ignored for the D⁵ that it is.
Likewise your 16:13 post with the exception of the last three sentences which are merely topics to be addressed AFTER starting with the basics.
Knowing that you will D⁵ me at any chance, I'm going to continue to motivate this discussion to the absolute first basics.
First basic: YDOM.
