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[Dale Eastman]

Keep Striking the Root government per se is the problem. But if it weren’t an official government in the form we’ve come to understand, then something else would play that role. In the final estimation, perhaps might does make right. But that’s not a great state of affairs either. Power, authority, control...they all exist one way or another. Government is perhaps an attempt to make these forces more accountable to society as a whole instead of whoever wields them. And there’s always a back and forth there. There’s a tension established with a balance of power that holds the world together. Chaos and tyranny are both undesirable but they have an inverse relationship. It’s a balancing act. Government at its best is that long pole the tight rope walker carries which helps him maintain balance.

➽ Government at its best

I used to ask, What, specifically, do you mean by "government"?

Now I just challenge: PROVE ME WRONG:

We all know that extortion is when somebody is told "Do what we tell you to do or we will hurt you." We all know that extortion is what a bad person, a criminal, does to a victim.

Organized crime syndicates use a method of extortion called a protection racket. "If you don't pay us to protect you, we won't protect you (from us)." "From us" may be brazenly stated or only implied.

To govern is to control. To extort is to control. To govern is to extort.

Elected politicians write rules. These politician's rules are written demands to be obeyed under threat of being hurt if you don't obey. This part of the politician's rules are called "penalties" or "fines". Thus rules of politicians, dictators, and monarchs are all extortion. Do what they tell you to do or be hurt.

Ergo, Government is an organized criminal syndicate that can not be defended by logic or by morality.

yes. If there’s no government then the control is held by organized crime. Exactly my point. There are limited means of holding government accountable but no means of holding organized crime accountable.

You have failed to prove me wrong.
Government IS organized crime.
That is what I have asked you to prove me wrong about.

They operate functionally the same but no one voted for el chappo.

Lemme see if I have correctly parsed your comment..

They [government & organized crime] operate functionally the same...

That is: government & organized crime, operating functionally the same, use extortion to get money and control...

That is: government & organized crime BOTH do criminal acts to get money and control...

So you are attempting to make an issue out of idiots voting for one criminal syndicate over another?

Do I correctly grok you meaning?

Governments don't do any of that. Instead of maintaining balance, they reward the politically-connected at the expense of everyone else.

Keep Striking the Root
I’m not of a mind that government is some miracle cure all for the ills of man. But power vacuums are destabilizing, chaotic and will be filled by something one way or another. I think the notion of functional anarchism is as utopian as Karl Marx’s vision for communism. These democratic governments are the least bad thing we’ve tried in terms of filling that power void so that purely self interested criminal elements don’t have free reign. At least this system forces these criminals to be cunning and sneaky instead of just straight out intimidating everyone with terror.

➽ I’m not of a mind that government is some miracle cure all for the ills of man. But [...]

"But" is a connective that erases everything that preceded that word. So you just erased your claim that you "are not of a mind that government is some miracle cure" which again tells me that you want a criminal syndicate called government to extort people for money and control.

You will NOT escape that picture of you wanting a criminal syndicate called government to extort people for money and control until you stop wanting a criminal syndicate called government to extort people for money and control. If you do not like the picture being painted of you, may I suggest you strike a different pose?


➽ power vacuums are destabilizing, chaotic and will be filled by something one way or another.

You mean like how the power vacuum of 1776 was filled with a criminal syndicate that extorts people for money and control?

you clearly don’t understand the word “but”.

➽ you clearly don’t understand the word “but”.

Actually I do.

⚠ But definition is - except for the fact.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/but⛔

⚠ But -  however, nevertheless, still, except
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/but⛔

I want to thank you for causing me to look up the word "but" to make sure my understanding of the word as I figured it out based on my self awareness and connective erasure was and is correct... "BUT" why should I thank somebody who refuses to address irrefutable logical points? See how that works?

➽ I’m not of a mind that government is some miracle cure all for the ills of man. [Except for the fact] [...]

You have VERY CLEARLY stated that you ARE of a mind that government is needed for some miracle cure for [SOME] of the ills of man.

So I again paint you in the pose you have struck. You WANT a criminal syndicate that extorts people for money and control as a cure for [SOME] of the ills of man.

Those "ills of man" are a valid concern. I look forward to honest discussion of what could be done regarding those "ills of man" AFTER one of those "ills" is addressed; That is to say, in this instance, the ill of wanting a criminal syndicate that extorts people for money and control to actually be in control.
 

you’re insufferable. I can only imagine you’re a lonely single guy. Probably and MRA.

nice straw man

You "imagine" equates to you "assume" without evidence.

Just like you "imagine", "assume", and "believe" that a criminal syndicate that extorts people for money and control is a valid cure for [SOME] of the ills of man.

The topic I keep dragging you back to is not a straw man. The topic I keep dragging you back to is the fact that government extorts people for money and control.

I am fascinated by your reactions to that truth, a truth you can not refute.

you’d be being extorted by someone else if it weren’t government.

Power vacuums get filled. It’s like gravity.

once you’ve been extorted by real criminals you’ll be keenly aware of the difference. They might just start cutting shit off, ears, fingers. Kidnapping your family. If a government does such things it is considered illegitimate. “Yeah, government sucks, but it could be worse.” Is a better way of characterizing my argument.

➽ If a government does such things it is considered illegitimate.

What an interesting belief.

Your consideration of whether a criminal syndicate that extorts people for money and control is legitimate or illegitimate is defined by the extent of the harms done by the criminal syndicate to force compliance with their demands...

Personally, I like the terms BOGUS or non-bogus.

So... Are there any other attributes or properties of the extortionists that you use to determine which ones are bogus and which ones are non-bogus?